Tuesday, June 01, 2010

murder or war?


The Israelis have actually gone mental. There is no clear reason for their actions in boarding the aid ships and murdering people. The consequences have been clearly laid out by Craig Murray:

"To attack a foreign flagged vessel in international waters is illegal. It is not piracy, as the Israeli vessels carried a military commission. It is rather an act of illegal warfare.

Because the incident took place on the high seas does not mean however that international law is the only applicable law. The Law of the Sea is quite plain that, when an incident takes place
on a ship on the high seas (outside anybody's territorial waters) the applicable law is that of the flag state of the ship on which the incident occurred. In legal terms, the Turkish ship was Turkish territory.

There are therefore two clear legal possibilities.

Possibility one is that the Israeli commandos were acting on behalf of the government of Israel in killing the activists on the ships. In that case Israel is in a position of war with Turkey, and the act falls under international jurisdiction as a war crime.

Possibility two is that, if the killings were not authorised Israeli military action, they were acts of murder under Turkish jurisdiction. If Israel does not consider itself in a position of war with Turkey, then it must hand over the commandos involved for trial in Turkey under Turkish law.

In brief, if Israel and Turkey are not at war, then it is Turkish law which is applicable to what happened on the ship. It is for Turkey, not Israel, to carry out any inquiry or investigation into events and to initiate any prosecutions. Israel is obliged to hand over indicted personnel for prosecution."

The thing Craig doesn't point out is that Israel is absolutely not going to hand over any of its holy warriors for prosecution. Which makes me think its going to be war, not murder.


  1. interesting

    a lot of people seem to really hate the je, sorry, Israelis.

    are a lot of nice white middle class people assisting people who would wish to see the je, sorry, Israelis exter, sorry, "gone"?

    39-45 taught the jews not to be fucked with. You know where it ends.

  2. And there you have it. Any criticism of Israeli actions is revised as antisemitism and rebutted with veiled threats. I thank you for your timely demonstration of exactly why theocratic exceptionalism spawns such terminally stupid societies.

    And yes, I hate Jews in a way. Just as I hate Muslims, Christians and zoroastrians. They all think they're their relevant god's chosen people and they are all fucking mental. They're not gods chosen people, they're very naughty boys!

  3. ... and girls!

    FGS man you're a Green Party member! We've got rules on Gender equality.

  4. In my defence I'm not sure if I can be reasonably expected to reword the line to conform to concepts of equality whilst maintaining the essential sarcastic tone of my reply.

  5. That was a pisspoor comeback to my original post

    I thought you were going to take me to the fucking cleaners - using the sweary route

    now fuck off big nose - you must do better!

    Unlike you, I do have a pecking order on religion and nasty little muslim fascists are at the top. Go Jews! There are still a few Nazis need hunting down.

  6. I am sorry to cunting disappoint. I can't really take you to the cleaners because you didn't really present much of an argument. You just implied that my criticism of Israel was antisemitic (wrong) and that WWII left all jews with a massive chip on their shoulders (wrong).

    I suppose there is a pecking order of awful when it comes to religion. Child sacrifice and female genital mutilation rank pretty highly. However, wilful destruction of ecosystems by rapture freaks is up there too. Islamic patriarchy is pretty gods-awful but its not really any "worse" than the institutional Catholic patriarchy and peadophilia. Hasidic jews are fucking awful, awful, awful people too. I just don't think you can pick on any one group of awful people and say they're better or worse. That's kind of the point of antitheism. Plus you should remember that the entrenchment iof militant islam has been hugely exacerbated by the neo-colonial attitude of the West towards the Middle East. How many dictatorships have The West propped up? How many anti democratic coups? How much propaganda and low intensity warfare is directed at OPEC countries? That's a seriously big pachyderm you're ignoring.

  7. oh man, just ignore the fuckwit.

  8. man, you are so full of fucking shit.

    Israel’s Right to Blockade Gaza and to Interdict Shipping


    Under international law Israel is within its rights to establish a maritime blockade of the Gaza Strip, since Gaza is ruled by Hamas, a hostile terrorist entity that has launched missiles into Israel targeting and killing civilians, and has also infiltrated and attempted to infiltrate into Israel in order to carry out attacks. There is therefore a state of armed conflict between Hamas-ruled Gaza and the State of Israelf, and in such a situation Israel is permitted, with certain limitations, to blockade the territory of its adversary.

    Israel is actually not fully exercising its blockade rights, since it is allowing inspected food, fuel and other essential materials from Israel into Gaza via trucks. However, Israel has announced that ships attempting to transport supposedly humanitarian supplies into Gaza would have to first dock in Israel for the supplies to be inspected, after which legitimate humanitarian supplies would be trucked into Gaza.

    The organizers of the Gaza-bound ships have consistently refused to allow their cargo to be inspected, which seems to prove that their humanitarian aid is just a pretext, and their real aim is simply to break the blockade. Whatever their aim however, Israel has a right under international law to prevent such ships from reaching Gaza.

    Even Reuters, not exactly known as a pro-Israel news source, published a brief analysis (Q&A-Is Israel's naval blockade of Gaza legal?) based on interviews with legal experts, and concluded that Israel was well within its rights to declare and enforce a blockade on Gaza. This included, according to the Reuters article, intercepting and boarding ships in international waters: "Under the law of a blockade, intercepting a vessel could apply globally so long as a ship is bound for a "belligerent" territory, legal experts say."

    Such blockades have long been part of customary and even conventional international law, and the relevant legal doctrines were reviewed and codified in the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, of 12 June 1994.

    The Legal Doctrine of Blockades

    Under the San Remo Manual and the laws that it codifies, blockades are a legitimate tool in armed conflicts. Of particular relevance here, paragraph 98 states that merchant vessels that attempt to run a blockade can be not just boarded but actually attacked, ie fired upon:

    98. Merchant vessels believed on reasonable grounds to be breaching a blockade may be captured. Merchant vessels which, after prior warning, clearly resist capture may be attacked.

    Though within its rights to attack the vessels, Israel did not do so. Instead it put its own soldiers at risk in trying to board and take control of the ships.

    Here is the relevant portion of the full section on blockades:

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  11. as for ban ki moon, that slant eyed prick needs to shut the hell up, he's got no frigging idea........

    what about israels rights ? lebanon and iran have both vowed to obliterate israel from the face of the earth, it is also the intentions of hamas......

    and that people, is a conspiracy to commit genocide...


    Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide..........


    Approved and proposed for signature and ratification or accession by General Assembly resolution 260 A (III) of 9 December 1948

    Entry into force: 12 January 1951, in accordance with article XIII

    The Contracting Parties ,

    Having considered the declaration made by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its resolution 96 (I) dated 11 December 1946 that genocide is a crime under international law, contrary to the spirit and aims of the United Nations and condemned by the civilized world,

    Recognizing that at all periods of history genocide has inflicted great losses on humanity, and

    Being convinced that, in order to liberate mankind from such an odious scourge, international co-operation is required,

    Hereby agree as hereinafter provided :

    Article I

    The Contracting Parties confirm that genocide, whether committed in time of peace or in time of war, is a crime under international law which they undertake to prevent and to punish.

    Article II

    In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

    ( a ) Killing members of the group;

    ( b ) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

    ( c ) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

    ( d ) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

    ( e ) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

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  13. Its fascinating to be given such an insight into the mindset of your average pro-Israeli: racism, lies, misrepresentation, bias, all the hallmarks of the close-minded retard that I expected him to be.

  14. just quoting legal documents, what have you got besides your opinion formed from biased reports from islamic countries ?

    you stupid little cock sucking semen sipping tree hugging fuckwit, you and your ilk are just braindead automotons who think your better than everyone else, you side with the followers of the most racist and violent religion in the world today, if your so fucking perfect and humane, then why dont you go to fucking darfur, tell the arab muslims to recant their genocidal order to murder black muslims, come on hero, do that, lets see how long it takes before your islamic friends cut your fucking head off and leave your body to rot.

    next time turkey sends a ship to break the blockade, i hope israel fucking sinks them, now fuck off and do some homework you pathetic little child.

  15. Wow! Aren't we a clever little boy! We have learned how to cut and paste into interweb forums! Would clever little diddums like a choccy bic bic as a reward? No? Well how about a fish hook down your japs eye and then given a good, swift YANK? Seriously, pituary retards like you give me heartburn, you're so fucking corrosive and vitriolic. Let me just say that racism is not tolerated on this blog. If you'd taken the time to read anything here you'd probably have picked that up. However, you reading comprehension has clearly only just moved on from The Hungry Caterpillar so we can excuse you on those grounds. I've deleted most of ths shite you copied into the comments because- in marked contrast to your blog- I do occasionally get other people posting here and want to make some attempt at making threads easy to follow. If you didn't get that last dig, let me restate it: You are a fucking loser and you have no friends. Not even any interweb friends. Everyone hates you. Especially me.

    Now, lets deal with the subject of this little rant, ey? You have posted a link (yes, we can all click on it to follow it- there's no need to paste the target site's contents into five successive comments you prick). That link refers to the website of CAMERA: the Committee for "Accuracy" in Middle East Reporting. I will link to their entry in SourceWatch and Wikipedia, which both indicate heavy bias in this organisation's output. I freely admit that that's an ad hominem argument but I think anyone else here needs to be aware of the credibility of your sole source before we move on. As far as the detail of CAMERA's argument goes, they propose that the blockade is governed by the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994. This is instantly absurd as there is no "armed conflict at sea" between Israel and the Palestinian Authority. This is because the Palestinians have few formal armed forces and those they do possess are Israeli, US and EU patsies. For this law to be applicable to the flotilla, Turkey, Greece, the Comoros Islands, Cambodia, Kiribati and the United States of America- under whose flags the ships were sailing- would have had to be in conflict with Israel. They weren't. You're full of shit. As are CAMERA. I'm not even going to bother pointing out the astonshing chutzpah involved in assaulting, in international waters, humanitarian aid ships liberally plastered with banners declaring that "this is a humanitarian aid ship" in Turkish, English, Arabic and Hebrew. No. I'm just going to point out that you're a cunt.

    I'm nored now. Dont come back. I'm not going to bother rebutting any more of your bigotry. As George points out, challenging irreconcilable stupidity begins to wear after a while.

  16. you ignorant peice of dogshit, the ships in those flotillas dont have to be enemies of israel, but if they intend to act in such a way that may threaten the safety of the nation of israel, then under international law israel has every right to take action to stop those ships wether you fucking like it or not...

    as for copy and pasting, i dont expect a fucken halfwit like you to know how to copy and paste, but that doesn't mean that i have to retype every word from another site just to please fuckwits like you, as for racism, what the fuck do you think you have been sticking up for ?
    your obvious love for islam and its people has blinded you to the fact that biggest fucking racists in the world today are islamics and what they are taught from their filthy scriptures ie: kill the unbelievers, the cunts are so racist they even kill each other, sunni vs shia and arab vs black.

    so go ahead you silly little cocksucking muslim loving cunt, delete everything that you cant give a decent arguement to, we wouldn't like to see you get embarrassed by your own unlearned bullshit would we ?

    ya fucking idiot.


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